Subject: Thank you, you changed my life!!!
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002
I really was at a cross roads with a situation, but then i came across
your site. I always would have described myself as a "Nice Guy". But
after having read pages on your website, I came to realize that that
term is a crutch for someone with issues and insecurities. I do have
insecurities and had low self esteem. But after ready your pages I
realized that those were things I needed to work on, and not just
because that would help me be with females. It was something I needed to
do anyway. You are right about the fact that people will prey on you
through your insecurities. Also, something that also helped me was
reading this book on how being selfish and being a bitch are not
negative ways to live at all. Being selfish and being a bitch just mean
that you are looking out for yourself. Being that I was a giver and
never would take what I needed and would give to the point where it
would hurt me, I learned to stop that. Sometimes you just got to wake up
and smell the coffee and realize that if you dont love yourself and
treat yourself right first, no one is going to or has a responsibility
to do that either. If you dont make people wipe they feet at the door
map, people will track all kinds of crap into your house, if you let
them. Thanks
From: "Tom A"
Subject: Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS
Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002
Hello
Interesting website, I think it's quite deserving of the Webby...
Anyway I just wanted to say that the artice that thares its title with this email struck a chord with me, as I went through this 'stage' when I was 17... (two years ago- have I changed? I hope so)
I was insecure, I fell in what I thought was love with a girl, made firends with her, followed her around, became insanely jealous when she spoke to toher boys. Eventually, when it was painfully obvious how into her I was, I asked her out and she said yes and we went out for 2 months, and then she dumped me, because I was clingy, boring, and way to obsessive. Wow, did that shatter me but after a while it made me realise what a dick I had been and since then I have never fallen into the same trap...
I think the thing that most "nice guys" (and when I say that I mean "me back then", I can't really speak for the millions of others) don't realise is that just because *they* think they are loving, caring and sensitive, doesnt mean that they *really* are. Its just an illusion which then gives rise to more illusions like "I deserve her because I am better than all the others", and "They don't realise what a 'nice guy' I am".
I am so glad I had these illusions shattered because its a very unhealthy way of living. I'm not saying I am perfect now but after gaining a little more self confidence (which, I think, lies at the root of the whole problem) I dont worry about things anymore and just get on with life. And I have sure as hell been a lot happier.
One more quick point - I recently ended a relationship with a girl because she was acting exactly the same way I had acted in the past. This really brought home to me what "nice people" are actually like to be in a relationship with. No Thank You.
Regards, and good luck with the Webby,
Tom Atkinson-Edwards
From: Cheeseywheesey@aol.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002
I just read your section on "nice guys" and am truly impressed by your
perceptiveness on this issue. However, I feel that you've missed
something (or perhaps I missed something while reading the articles, and
you did cover what I am about to mention). You talk about how "nice
guys" feel horrible because they can't find a mate, and how women
constantly cling to jerks for mates over these spineless, manipulative
men. However, don't you notice something else truly sad about all of
this? What I am talking about is how all of these people - jerks,
manipulative women, and especially nice guys- feel such an incredible
need to mate in the first place. Everytime I hear about something like
this, I am quite repulsed. Perhaps these people would be better off if
they didn't measure their self-worth and happiness by if they have a
"significant other" in their life. Perhaps EVERYONE would be better off
if they didn't obsess about having a love life so much. But what do I
know? I'm happy, and don't see a therapist, and therefore I can't
possibly know anything about people's emotional well-being.
From: eyebeme@cox.net
Date: 11 June 2002
Okay, first things first, I refuse to answer the question about the women of HBI and especialy Natalie P. because I don't know them and think that is a pretty stupid question anyway, also there are no answers that read," What do I care?" Second, I am including a rambling diatribe but I do not have any erectile problems and I quite enjoy my life, so I won't check that box either. Third, I just stumbled onto this sight and pretty much laughed my ass off at some of the whiny ass guys that have thought that they could change the way anyone thinks, let alone a group of self proclaimed "Bitches".
Now to why I am really here. I read some of the Nice Guy articles and have a few things to say about that. I have been told I am a "Nice Guy" but I don't get laid that often and I haven't had a girlfriend for a few years. Before you all get your knickers in a twist here is the amazing thing, it is strictly from a lack of trying. I'm not a bad looking guy and when I put my mind to it I can find a meaningful weekend relationship without much problem. I don't play the "Nice Guy" or the "Prick" I just go out and act like myself and I am honest about what I am looking for and I can normaly find an attractive woman with the same goals for the evening. I don't understand guys who are so needy and clingy that are claiming to be "Nice Guys" when in all actuallity they are on about the same level as JELLO when it comes to asking for what they want in a relationship. "Nice" is not a synonim for gutless turd. Now I come to the "Pricks", sure they are self confident ad sometimes attractive but they don't have a fucking clue how to do anything for anyone else. They don't have a problem asking for what they want from a woman but are stone deaf when it comes to hearing her requests. "Pricks", get a small clue, she wouldn't have dumped you after she got the jewelry if you would have listened once in a while. I believe that I am a "Nice Guy", not the spineless type but the type who has the confidence to ask for what I want and the ability to listen and give a woman what she needs. Right now I am not in a relationship because I spend the majority of my free time doing things I enjoy, someday I might meet the "Bitch"(My ideal woman would be a member here, I'm sure) of my dreams while I am doing that but for right now I could not expect a woman to put up with all of the time I spend in the woods or on a fishing boat, nor would I ask her too accept it becuase it would be a very "Prick"ish thing to do.
Maybe I'm just a "Bitch" with a dick, that likes girls. That's my two cents, not that you asked for it.
Charlie Ferrell(AKA CrazyArcher)
From: SMcHale@filenet.com
Subject: When 'Nice Guys' are such losers
I just read your article When 'Nice Guys' are such losers. You nailed it. I
ought to know. I used to be one of those. Where was this wisdom 20 years ago
when I needed it?
Best,
Steve
From: Roger Moraga
Subject: Well, that was definitely something
Hello there!
I came across your website following a link someone
had posted in a discussion forum, in concrete it was
the one about "why girls don't like 'Nice Guys'". I
was reading and, mislead by the name of the website, I
admit, was thinking "jeez, another bunch of man-hating
pseudolesbians that have nothing better to do than to
reduce men to stereotypes and conclude how useless all
of them are. I bet they have a second page about how
not-Nice Guys are also stupid, and such, all the male
population is equally retarded".
Shame on me. It's a good thing that I still try to
review as much as my patience allows before making a
judgement about anything, or my clueless hate-mail
would now be in your mailbox. Maybe it would have been
a good thing since it'd have provided a few good
laughs.
Anyway, soon I realised I was wrong. I went back to
the "Nice Guys" page, read again more carefully, and
yup, it was clear then; it wasn't a stereotype
bashing, it wasn't a men-hate page, it was a well
placed slap to those "Nice Guys" to shake them off a
little bit, or as I've read in other articles there, a
call from the clue phone company.
This said, I only know two Heartless Bitches. I get
along with them incredibly well, even if they kick my
butt when I deserve it. I wish there were more bitches
and less "Nice Girls" in the world, it'd sure be a
better place.
Keep up the good work.
Roger.
From: "Michael Coffey"
Subject: Your nice guys section
I just wanted to say thank you for this website. Some of the articles in
your nice guy section were a real eye opener for me. I dont really know
what to do next, but at least I know that I was the reason my
relationships were all miserable failures. Again, thank you.
Mike
From: FFASA@aol.com
Subject: Nice Guys and Men
Thank you for taking the time to allow me the honor of writing, and hopefully saving you a few hundred emails.
This is for all the "nice guys" who keep writing in whining about how unfair your site, or the advice many of the ladies have posted, is. Listen up boys, women don't want guys, nice or otherwise. They want men.
Here is the short version. Respect them, when you are in a relationship show them a due measure of affection (I am not talking worship here), and for the love of all things holy learn that romance is not sex, nor is it washing her PT Cruiser so it will be clean for HER DATE that evening.
Guys, sorry to bruise up that fragile sickly image you call an ego, but realize the women has to dig you for you. Some women will like you, some will not, but all will respect you if you become a man. Not a woman basher, a true man. For example...... I knew a guy once who really enjoyed a certain ladies company. He took her to dinner, bought her flowers, and even walked her up to HER lover's door to drop her off. Did you catch that? Guys, this girl is not into you! WALK. Leave, don't be mean, or hateful, keep your mouth shut, chalk it up to experience, but do not keep taking this abuse. It lowers your self esteem, and makes you look like jelly in every girls eyes who hears this story. How can she for one instant respect you as a possibly lover/mate if you don't even respect yourself. This situation shows you have no confidence in yourself, your have no self control or you would walk, and you most definately are not a challenge when she already has you on a leash.
Another example: When you are right, stand your ground. You state, with respect, your convictions once. No matter what she does, if you are "right" or if it is just something you must do, then fine, do it. Don't argue, don't debate, just state your view and look at the door..... let's find out now if this is a serious relationship issue, think of the money you will save if it is! Now guys, understand, there is a time for debate. Those times will be clear by not being clear (when you get there, you will understand). And lastly, when you are wrong and she calls you on it, you take ownership of it, apologize, and be done with it.
Now guys, the last piece of advice I can give you, and something than many of the charming ladies of this site have at least mentioned one way or antoher is to just "love" women. Enjoy their conversations, they are so much better than us at communicating, realize you are dealing with a master in subtleties, so enjoy the challenge. Try this, go out with at least 6 girls (from work, your sisters friends, etc.) and just try to keep up with, and listen to, the conversation. They are amazing. And women can feel this! They know in five minutes if you are just trying to bed them, or if you have taken a serious interest in them (on the other hand you guys jump the gun too much and think if she says hello back she wants to have your baby). Flirt, love'em, and enjoy the beauty of each lovely lady. When, and it will, your turn comes to have a deep relationship with one of these charming persons, then remember what to do: exactly what you did to get to this point "skippy."
Thank you for the time to write, and I truly enjoyed your site...........
Guys, if you want more info, email me at FFASA@AOL.com
Brian Gulledge
