And Still more comments from and about Nice Guys...

... and in the "Some people just can't READ for content" department (otherwise known as the "I see dead people" department):

From: FuppingGrassole@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003
Subject: You're so wrong

I'd like to think I'm a 'nice guy' but I think you're really bitter and twisted if you really believe that you have to be a complete bastard to get anywhere in life!

[Uhh... where did we say that?]

All you're doing is glorifying the nasty people of the world - who don't need or deserve any help!

[Telling people to get their shit together and stop blaming others is "glorifying nasty people"? Wow. some funny colored glasses THAT guy has on...]

I also think you've got it very wrong as I've always been a caring, giving type of bloke (the type you'd see as a jerk)

[Shall we try ONE MORE TIME for the audience? When we are referring to "Nice Guys" in this section, we aren't referring to genuinely "caring, giving" people - we are referring to whining, snivelling types who constantly complain that ALL women only want assholes, elevate themselves to some martyr status and call it "Nice Guy" and proceed to blame all their relationship problems on women. There. Do you GET IT YET? Didn't think so. Twit.]

and although I don't get floods of women falling all over me - when I do have a relationship, it's fantastic - and I know lots of really decent ladies who think the same as me - I would rather meet one person with some decency in her soul than 100 shallow ones who see things like you do.

[What about 100 DEEP ones who know how to read? Oh, that's right, THEY wouldn't be caught dead with you because you are too THICK to see past your own issues.]

True, there are some painfully insecure men out there

[... but *you're* not one of them, right? Suuuuuure.]

and women for that matter, but your web labels anyone with any decency or vulnerability as a hapless loser

[Funny how many hapless losers see themselves pantsed in the "Nice Guys" section...]

- and this is just not factual. Some women actually find vulnerability a turn on, some don't - same for men.

So have some advice from me now, as a rule of thumb, don't generalise about people, don't condemn differences that you see as weaknesses in people - you might actually start to see things a little clearer and glean a little dignity in your own sad world.

[I find it amusing how so many self-righteous jerks label themselves as "Nice Guys"... Well I have some advice for YOU: Dial 1-800-OH-ASIF!]

Some get it. Some don't. A case in point:

From: Peagert@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003
Subject: Just a thought

Hello there, "nice girls " LOL.

[wow. Rapier wit here.]

Few questions. Are you a clinically trained psycologist? Is it possible that maybe YOU were rejected by a " nice guy " at one time, and maybe thats why you have such a vendetta against them?

[No, but it IS possible that *I* punted a couple of them for being smothering, overbearing, blaming and incapable of self-awareness.]

I mean why would a nice guy wanna waste his time with a bitter hypocrite like yourself? Some one who would actually waste they're time and energy setting up a web page like this, is the one who needs to get a life! Hey dont take my advice, go find yourself a jerk and be happy. Or do something constructive with you're time. How a about a website that puts down jerks and assholes. Theres an idea! MY advice to YOU, LIVE AND LET LIVE!!!!!!

[here we go again with the "advice"... What is it with these guys?]

Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003
From: Zach Simpson <innerfears@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: random comment

Hey, I just have a random comment here... I read "Nice guys we can do without" and a lot of it is true, touching on the insecurity issues. I am a self-proclaimed nice guy, though I would definitely not consider myself insecure. I can thankfully say nothing in that article applied to me. I wanted to share an experience I had that doesn't really go towards one side or the other, I just thought it was interesting to note and might make some people think.

A few girls I've talked to on this subject told me something about nice guys. I asked them about their type/preference of guys, on separate occasions, and these few girls said they would never date a nice guy. I asked why, and one of them replied with "I don't know, I just like a feeling of adventure and excitement.. nice guys are just TOO nice." Now of course this is the girl's personal preference and doesn't reflect every girl's opinion, but the main thing that pisses me off is that she wouldn't even attempt it. Again, I know not all girls are like this, and these few make their own decisions, but I just wanted to share that experience because looking through the comments section I never saw anything like this. I figured you'd find it interesting if anything that some girls actually openly admit to not liking nice guys in general - not nice guys they've encountered, not nice guys based on their attitude or actions, but just any guy that happens to be nice. I asked this girl if she ever dated a "nice guy" and of course she said no, and from what I know of this person she doesn't have any childhood issues that make her psychologically choose assholes.

[First, unless you are that girl's psychologist, you really can't comment on whether or not she has childhood issues. If she's never dated someone she deems as nice or decent or caring, then in all likelihood she DOES have issues. Emotionally healthy people don't date assholes repeatedly. Secondly, many whining snivelling types of "nice guys" are attracted to THAT type of girl - in some cases, it's the only kind they notice.]

So I really don't know what it is, I just know that there are other guys out there that have experienced this and these types of girls may be who they're blaming. Although, a lot of those same guys might just be making up the fact that girls completely bypass the option of dating a nice guy to further justify their misery... in any case, I wanted to shed some light on the possibility. Yes, some girls that these nice guys tend to make up actually do exist, and won't even consider dating a nice guy. I have encountered a few. But that's only a few... I don't think guys should blame girls in general. If they do, that's just implying paranoia and insecurity.

[If that's the only kind of girl they notice, it soon becomes a world 'o blame - they see ALL women as being that way rather than stopping and looking at themselves and why they are attracted to fucked-up women.]

I can't say that these girls' preference for "adventure and excitement" speaks for every girl, but I've heard that girls look for that kind of thing in relationships because they tend to like challenges.

[Young people in general are experimenting. Young girls are caught up in a lot of socialization around the whole "diamond in the rough" myth - and how a girl is supposed to help a guy become a better man. If SHE is really insecure, she will be measuring her self-worth based on that, or even worse, will figure she doesn't DESERVE to be treated decently. If she doesn't outgrow that by her mid-20's and is still going after assholes, then she's not a safe one to be in a relationship.]

Can they not find this with nice guys? Are they generalizing? I'd like to hear your opinion on why some girls (like these girls) wouldn't even consider dating a nice guy when they don't base it off of anything like behavior or appearance, other than the plain fact that they're just too nice for them. You've covered a lot of good reasons on why girls wouldn't consider dating nice guys who exhibit certain flaws, but none (that I know of) that cover why a girl chooses to dislike actual niceness in guys when it may not necessarily be from past history or something psychological.

[Pathologically choosing assholes over decent people is ALWAYS from past history or something psychological. You just might not be able to see it.]

Thanks for reading my extensive amount of info that could've probably been narrowed down to a few sentences...

JadeSyren (our Ruthless, Heartless BitchBouncer), Responds to yet another Nice Guy...

From: "lawrence" <lt2@nyu.edu>
To: jadesyren@heartless-bitches.com
Subject: Nice guys etc.
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003

I think that maybe you're being too

[... Heartless?]

[I can tell that you desperately wanted to link militant to feminism there. Why don't you tell me how that adjective really applies here. I know how we want it to be applicable, and I am even aware that this usage is even in dictionaries, but I've always thought it to be a ridiculously overblown usage. It's not as if we're taking up weapons, or even assembling an army.]

[As a matter of fact, chummo, a website is passive in nature. We aren't even assembling PROTESTS. Put it in perspective, or are your hurt feelings preventing that?]

[Oh, I feel a "but" coming on, which means that this statement is a big, fat, lie.]

[Sure. How big is YOUR control group? Seriously, you're speaking from personal experience here, which is not only biased but severely limited. ]

[Here we go.]

[So women are perpetual victims of the "media" who not only tell them who to look like, but who to like as well? Fat chance, bucko. There's probably some psychology here at work. People who are users gravitate toward people who are easy to use. People who "give" too much, who build their self-esteem on what they can do for someone else, tend to gravitate towards people who "need" them. Later on, they whine about how they got used, mistreated, and abused, and while it's sad, it's a pattern that they themselves have perpetuated.]

[That isn't "nice" by the way, it's pathological.]

[Yeah, well, if you believe everything you see in movies: http://www.moviecliches.com/ ]

[No, I don't believe that people are swayed by mythology. Stop justifying your self-victimization.]

[Yes. They are fucked up, and some of them refuse to see that.]

[I.E. probably codependent, or possessing seriously low self-esteem at the very least. I agree, it's wrong for people to just take and take and take, but there comes a time when each little "nice guy" should get off the pity pot and realize that they can't be used against their will.]

[My antagonistic meanspirited attitude is reserved for fuckwits who desperately try to rationalize or otherwise defend what is an unhealthy mindset. Get some therapy.]

[Oh ho. Anyone can BECOME a victim, that is true. It's how long they stay a victim. I blame them for that. I especially blame them for trying to show me how they really AREN'T a victim by showing me that they really ARE a victim. ]

[Well, if you have to TELL me that you are, it's probably debatable.]

[SOME? In other words, MORE THAN ONE. In other words, you didn't learn from your first mistake...]

[That means that they dumped YOU, right? Now, while I wouldn't hold you responsible for having ONE relationship like this, who do you think is responsible for picking that type of woman over and over?]

[Not an issue.]

[...because "nice guys" tend to be whiny, mewling fuckwits? I wouldn't limit this disappointment to just MEN, here. However, a person with a more healthy outlook wouldn't spend too much time crying in the bar, now would they?]

[At least both sexes aren't really known to think for themselves in your world.]

[BECAUSE IT'S ULTIMATELY HIS LIFE.]

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